Dec 31

Ugandan kill-the-gays bill part 16: Rachel Maddow interviews David Bahati

Civil Rights and Justice, Human Rights, Myths Busted 17 Comments »

written by Sherri Joubert

This article is part 16 in a multi-part series about the Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill of 2009, better known as the Ugandan kill-the-gays bill. It is still alive and on the Ugandan Parliament agenda for debate at the end of 2010 or early in 2011.

This interview with the sponsor of this horrible legislation is enlightening on a very deep level. Being able to discuss Mr. Bahati’s bill directly with him is an extremely rare opportunity, and provides a clear and frightening picture of what he is trying to accomplish in Uganda with the gay population there.

The first 15 articles can be accessed at the following links:


American history: foundational myths about being gay:

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“Gays can’t reproduce so they must recruit”. What a crock. Gays and lesbians are born that way, usually as the product of straight parents. We don’t exactly know why that is, but there a few strongly-supported theories being studied that may explain what we see in nature.

Ten percent (on average) of all mammalian species are homosexual, not just humans, therefore, homosexuality exists consistently in nature and is a normal variant within populations.

Gays and lesbians can reproduce and/or parent adopted children. Egg and sperm donors and surrogate mothers allow couples of both genders to have children biologically related to one or both partners. Children of gay and lesbian parents (biological or adopted) generally turn out straight, not always, but most of the time.

David Bahati Interview (part 1):

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David Bahati says, “I don’t hate gays, I love them”. But he’ll kill every one of them to protect the Ugandan children. According to Mr. Bahati, telling children or teens that a man sleeping with a man is okay is tantamount to recruiting kids into being gay.

He also believes that gays do not deserve human rights protections.

David Bahati Interview (part 2):

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Mr. Bahati doesn’t want to stop at keeping gays away from children. He wants all gay Ugandans punished, no matter where they are in the world. He wants gay Ugandans extradited back to Uganda to stand trial for homosexual behavior whenever it occurs outside of Uganda.

God’s Law and Homosexuality

In the Bible, we first encounter homosexual gang rape in Genesis 18-19 in the story of Lot and the city of Sodom. Gay sex is listed as a sin in Hebrew law (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13), it is called an abomination, and the penalty is death. It doesn’t say anything about lesbian sex.

In Deuteronomy 22:5, cross-dressing is forbidden. A woman may not put on a man’s clothing, and a man may not put on a woman’s clothing. All of we women who wear pants are definitely in violation of this law.

These laws were specifically designed by God to prohibit the Children of Israel from imitating a variety of acts practiced by other tribes and nations surrounding the Israelites. (See Deuteronomy 18:9).

There is the whole story of David and Jonathan possibly being bisexual lovers. David had many wives. But the story of the relationship between these two men is quite suspicious (See 1 Sam. 20:17), and David got away with a lot of bad stuff and still ended up with a sterling reputation. He could have gotten away with a homosexual relationship, too.

Mr. Bahati gives his own opinion of God’s law as well as saying Jesus preached the same prohibitions against homosexuality. Jesus never preached anything concerning homosexuality specifically, but his Apostle, Paul, did. On the subject of adultery, Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman for adultery, saying “he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. Jesus saved the woman’s life by reminding everyone that no one is without sin, and mercy and forgiveness should be shown over strident application of Hebrew law. Jesus preached love, mercy and forgiveness, and I do not believe he would have considered today’s gay or lesbian couples to be abominations.

People of that time were ignorant of a homosexual nature with which a person is born, a nature involving romantic love of another person of the same sex. Their experience was limited to the sexual religious practices of the Canaanites and other local tribes that would have been pretty appealing to the Israelites. (Imagine orgies instead of church).

Mr. Bahati is correct that the Bible has prohibitions against homosexual sex, but the laws were not meant literally for a modern world. They were meant to keep the Israelites from participating in the practices of worshiping the gods of the other nations surrounding them (including idol worship, cultic prostitution, incest, homosexuality, bestiality, and infant sacrifice).

If one wants to talk about rampant sins, adultery is a very big problem in African cultures as well as most of the rest of the world. We no longer punish adulterers with stoning or scarlet letters or banishment. That is seen as ridiculous. Since homosexuality and adultery are discussed in the Bible in the same passages on laws about sex, homosexuality laws in the Bible should also be seen today in the same light as adultery.

To date, Mr. Bahati has sent nothing to The Rachel Maddow Show showing any facts supporting his allegation that gays recruit children into homosexuality.

David Bahati Interview (part 3):

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Mr. Bahati does not understand that there is such a thing as international law and punishment for human rights atrocities, and imprisoning and executing gays for being gay would certainly be an atrocity.

Jeff Sharlet Reports

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Conservative American supporters inside The Family and out, are exporting the fight against homosexuality to Uganda and David Bahati. When/if he wins the war there he will bring the lessons of the victory back to America to restart the conservative war against homosexuality in America and try again to win it.

Fortunately, I believe, and so do many others, that gays and lesbians will have full and equal civil rights as all other Americans by the time Uganda gets done with their bill.

Don’t Ask Don’t Tell has already been repealed. Joe Biden sees a path clearing for legalizing same-sex marriage all over the country, and even President Obama is beginning to see same-sex marriage as the institution that will be instated rather than civil unions.

Over the past 21 months of working closely with gays and lesbians on DADT, it seems President Obama has come to see their lives and relationships as much more similar to straight relationships than they are different from them. I say bravo for the President.

You can watch the full, unedited interview here on MaddowBlog.

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Apr 08

Ugandan kill-the-gays bill part 13: Now it’s the imprison-the-gays-for-life bill

Human Rights 5 Comments »

written by Sherri Joubert

This article is part 13 in a multi-part series about the Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill of 2009, better known as the Ugandan kill-the-gays bill. The first 12 articles can be accessed at the following links:

There has been a change of opinion on the Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill of 2009. 1) Ethics minister, James Buturo, said to the media that ‘homosexuals can forget about human rights’, and 2) President Museveni has decided that the death penalty parts of the bill will be removed before passage.

There has also been a very troubling clarification from Bob Hunter of The Family concerning who decides when and where United States Senators and Congressmen travel on The Family’s business. Senator James Inhofe has bragged to his colleagues that when he goes to Uganda or anywhere in Africa, he can open doors because of his American political position. This is quite a revelation about the separation of church and state in this country. Who do our Congresspersons and Senators really work for when they are members of The Family? Who do they represent?

Please watch the video (7 min). Much of the discussion is based on its content.

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Here is the link to Box Turtle Bulletin with a lot more of Scott Lively’s videos. Lively equates gays to sociopaths, Nazis, mass murders, serial killers, and the cause of the Rwandan genocide. He claims to know more about homosexuality than anyone else in the world? Really? Is Lively secretly gay and telling the truth? Has he participated in murder and genocide? I don’t think so. Watch the videos if you can stomach the lies and hate. After this false input into a society in a “sexual knowledge and education” vacuum, it’s no wonder Ugandans hate gays even more than they did before. (Again, Scott Lively is not associated with or a member of The Family).

Here is the link to Jeff Sharlet’s response to the Bob Hunter interview. Jeff says he doesn’t know why Hunter said he denied his own reporting. He clearly doesn’t. It would benefit The Family considerably if the most persistent investigative reporter about them said he was wrong. It would let them all off the hook about everything Jeff has written about them. The whole article is an important read, but the most important quote from it is posted below the link. What the Family isn’t saying about the kill-the-gays bill in Uganda

Working with two documents Hunter prepared for government and Family leaders, “Re: organizing the invisible” and “A Trip to East Africa—Fall 1986,” and Family leader Doug Coe’s account of Hunter’s trip, I argued that Hunter traveled at the behest of the U.S. government. Hunter’s correction? He didn’t go at the government’s behest; American politicians went to Uganda at his behest. He didn’t work for them; they worked for him. Emphasis mine.

American politicians go on trips at Bob Hunter’s behest. That means The Family and it’s church(es) control a part of the U.S. government. It decides which members will go where, when, and on our tax dollars. So much for separation of church and state. This is the exact kind of problem the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was meant to prevent.

I (charitably) don’t think Bob Hunter fully understands the conflict with the First Amendment that he is creating when our legislators travel at his behest. It doesn’t matter if the trips are for good works or not. It conflicts with the solemn oath sworn by legislators to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution. That includes leaving religion out of trips abroad and sticking to U.S. policy. I’m not sure why Senators and Congresspersons are permitted to travel out of the country representing the U.S. without the State Department’s knowledge and blessing.

Here is Bob Hunters reply to Jeff Sharlet’s written response on the TRMS website.

Bob Hunter’s article is a bit rambling, but it is definitely worth reading. He concludes his thoughts as follows:

While Jeff and I still argue vigorously about important (to us) details, we do agree on the only critical thing: the Uganda Anti-homosexual[ity] Bill must be stopped. I commit to continue working on that with Jeff and others who seek that important outcome, including friends in high position in Uganda. This discussion demonstrates the essence of how the Fellowship works; learning to love one another while not giving up our individual positions, even on issues we feel deeply about.

NEWS FLASH

After preparing this post, I learned that President Museveni appears to be moving in the right direction. I am sure that Jeff is as pleased as I am to hear the good news!

Perhaps the kill-the-gays bill will be dropped after all. However, it’s not over yet. I’ll keep you posted.

Part 14 may be accessed here.

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