kill-the-gays bill » Being the Change I Wish to See

Dec 31

Ugandan kill-the-gays bill part 16: Rachel Maddow interviews David Bahati

written by Sherri Joubert

This article is part 16 in a multi-part series about the Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill of 2009, better known as the Ugandan kill-the-gays bill. It is still alive and on the Ugandan Parliament agenda for debate at the end of 2010 or early in 2011.

This interview with the sponsor of this horrible legislation is enlightening on a very deep level. Being able to discuss Mr. Bahati’s bill directly with him is an extremely rare opportunity, and provides a clear and frightening picture of what he is trying to accomplish in Uganda with the gay population there.

The first 15 articles can be accessed at the following links:

American history: foundational myths about being gay:

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“Gays can’t reproduce so they must recruit”. What a crock. Gays and lesbians are born that way, usually as the product of straight parents. We don’t exactly know why that is, but there a few strongly-supported theories being studied that may explain what we see in nature.

Ten percent (on average) of all mammalian species are homosexual, not just humans, therefore, homosexuality exists consistently in nature and is a normal variant within populations.

Gays and lesbians can reproduce and/or parent adopted children. Egg and sperm donors and surrogate mothers allow couples of both genders to have children biologically related to one or both partners. Children of gay and lesbian parents (biological or adopted) generally turn out straight, not always, but most of the time.

David Bahati Interview (part 1):

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David Bahati says, “I don’t hate gays, I love them”. But he’ll kill every one of them to protect the Ugandan children. According to Mr. Bahati, telling children or teens that a man sleeping with a man is okay is tantamount to recruiting kids into being gay.

He also believes that gays do not deserve human rights protections.

David Bahati Interview (part 2):

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Mr. Bahati doesn’t want to stop at keeping gays away from children. He wants all gay Ugandans punished, no matter where they are in the world. He wants gay Ugandans extradited back to Uganda to stand trial for homosexual behavior whenever it occurs outside of Uganda.

God’s Law and Homosexuality

In the Bible, we first encounter homosexual gang rape in Genesis 18-19 in the story of Lot and the city of Sodom. Gay sex is listed as a sin in Hebrew law (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13), it is called an abomination, and the penalty is death. It doesn’t say anything about lesbian sex.

In Deuteronomy 22:5, cross-dressing is forbidden. A woman may not put on a man’s clothing, and a man may not put on a woman’s clothing. All of we women who wear pants are definitely in violation of this law.

These laws were specifically designed by God to prohibit the Children of Israel from imitating a variety of acts practiced by other tribes and nations surrounding the Israelites. (See Deuteronomy 18:9).

There is the whole story of David and Jonathan possibly being bisexual lovers. David had many wives. But the story of the relationship between these two men is quite suspicious (See 1 Sam. 20:17), and David got away with a lot of bad stuff and still ended up with a sterling reputation. He could have gotten away with a homosexual relationship, too.

Mr. Bahati gives his own opinion of God’s law as well as saying Jesus preached the same prohibitions against homosexuality. Jesus never preached anything concerning homosexuality specifically, but his Apostle, Paul, did. On the subject of adultery, Jesus stopped the stoning of a woman for adultery, saying “he who is without sin, cast the first stone”. Jesus saved the woman’s life by reminding everyone that no one is without sin, and mercy and forgiveness should be shown over strident application of Hebrew law. Jesus preached love, mercy and forgiveness, and I do not believe he would have considered today’s gay or lesbian couples to be abominations.

People of that time were ignorant of a homosexual nature with which a person is born, a nature involving romantic love of another person of the same sex. Their experience was limited to the sexual religious practices of the Canaanites and other local tribes that would have been pretty appealing to the Israelites. (Imagine orgies instead of church).

Mr. Bahati is correct that the Bible has prohibitions against homosexual sex, but the laws were not meant literally for a modern world. They were meant to keep the Israelites from participating in the practices of worshiping the gods of the other nations surrounding them (including idol worship, cultic prostitution, incest, homosexuality, bestiality, and infant sacrifice).

If one wants to talk about rampant sins, adultery is a very big problem in African cultures as well as most of the rest of the world. We no longer punish adulterers with stoning or scarlet letters or banishment. That is seen as ridiculous. Since homosexuality and adultery are discussed in the Bible in the same passages on laws about sex, homosexuality laws in the Bible should also be seen today in the same light as adultery.

To date, Mr. Bahati has sent nothing to The Rachel Maddow Show showing any facts supporting his allegation that gays recruit children into homosexuality.

David Bahati Interview (part 3):

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Mr. Bahati does not understand that there is such a thing as international law and punishment for human rights atrocities, and imprisoning and executing gays for being gay would certainly be an atrocity.

Jeff Sharlet Reports

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Conservative American supporters inside The Family and out, are exporting the fight against homosexuality to Uganda and David Bahati. When/if he wins the war there he will bring the lessons of the victory back to America to restart the conservative war against homosexuality in America and try again to win it.

Fortunately, I believe, and so do many others, that gays and lesbians will have full and equal civil rights as all other Americans by the time Uganda gets done with their bill.

Don’t Ask Don’t Tell has already been repealed. Joe Biden sees a path clearing for legalizing same-sex marriage all over the country, and even President Obama is beginning to see same-sex marriage as the institution that will be instated rather than civil unions.

Over the past 21 months of working closely with gays and lesbians on DADT, it seems President Obama has come to see their lives and relationships as much more similar to straight relationships than they are different from them. I say bravo for the President.

You can watch the full, unedited interview here on MaddowBlog.

Technorati Tags: C Street, David Bahati, Jeff Sharlet, kill-the-gays bill, Rachel Maddow, The Family, The Fellowship, Uganda

\\ tags: C Street, David Bahati, Jeff Sharlet, kill-the-gays bill, Rachel Maddow, The Family, The Fellowship, Uganda

Apr 26

Ugandan kill-the-gays bill part 15: Archbishop Orombi still supports draconian bill

Human Rights 5 Comments »

written by Sherri Joubert

This article is part 15 in a multi-part series about the Ugandan anti-homosexuality bill of 2009, better known as the Ugandan kill-the-gays bill. The Rachel Maddow Show named this series Uganda Be Kidding Me, and they won a GLAAD award this year for it. The first 14 articles can be accessed at the following links:

Archbishop Henry Luke Orombi released the following: Press Release from Church of Uganda on Feb. 11, 2010

The following is commentary about the evil and godlessness of being gay in Uganda during the 2009 Christmas Mass. What an unchristian way to celebrate the birth of Christ…

The Anglican Church of Uganda is weighing in on that nation’s proposal to punish — including by execution — gay people. The Most Reverend Henry Luke Orombi, the Ugandan archbishop, issued a press release this week asking Ugandan lawmakers to tweak the bill to “protect the vulnerabilities of the boy child,” provide for proportionality in sentencing,” and ensure that “sexual orientation is excluded as a protected human right.” [Emphasis mine].

The Anglican Church of Uganda refers to gayness as “homosexual disorientation.” Archbishop Orombi writes that he wants the state to “prohibit and penalize homosexual behavior and related practices in Uganda as they constitute a threat to the traditional family.” As Box Turtle Bulletin notes, Orombi leaves unclear whether the Anglican Church of Uganda supports capital punishment for gay people.

American Episcopalians who oppose gay rights have broken away to form the Anglican Church in North America (ACNA). Their closest ties are now to the Church of Nigeria and the Church of Uganda. Archbishop Orombi has traveled to the U.S. and preached to their members. (Full disclosure: [Laura Conaway is] an American Episcopalian and in a same-sex marriage.) Box Turtle Bulletin (BTB) writes:

I doubt that these American churches endorse the abolition of the freedom of speech in America and I suspect that if cornered many would refuse to publicly endorse re-criminalization of homosexuality. Yet, to date, neither the ACNA nor a single member church has spoken against the efforts of the Church of Uganda. None has expressed even the slightest discomfort about being publicly aligned with those who endorse human rights abuses.

It disgusts me that Americans who joined the ACNA seem to have no problem with excluding homosexuality as a protected human right. Gays and lesbians are human beings and deserve to be protected from persecution just like any other minority group. Supporting denial of human rights to gays and lesbians around the world is plain wrong no matter what the argument might be.

Being gay is a human variation, just like preferring vegetables to meat. It is not and should not be a crime anywhere, but it is still a crime in many places in the world.

Archbishop Orombi’s rhetoric may still be inflaming his congregation and keeping anti-gay sentiments socially alive, but fortunately, governments tend to make decisions, legislation and treaties that benefit their countries as a whole.

Uganda can’t afford to be without the aid of the U.S. and Europe. It is doubtful that no matter how much some Ugandan clergy dislike gays (as many American clergy dislike gays), they don’t have the leverage to successfully push such horrific and unconscionable legislation through Parliament and get President Museveni to sign it.

Quotes from: MaddowBlog.msnbc.com posted by Laura Conaway on Feb. 11, 2010.

Technorati Tags: American Episcopalian Church, Anglican Church of North America, Anglican Church of Uganda, Archbishop Orombi, Human Rights, kill-the-gays bill, Uganda